There is an entire group of people who want to make this “gamergate” about how a couple slimy capitalists who happen to be women were harassed for being slimy capitalists, mostly because they truly believe that is the real issue and must be addressed.
That this is more about the corruption and disconnect of games journalism from its intended audience is inconsequential to them, so unimportant as to not even be mentioned in the face of sensationalist news that a well known “feminist” was forced to leave her home for publishing a lazily made and blatantly inflammatory video.
They cannot comprehend that the dichotomy is shifted in this issue, that to support these women is to diminish feminism and journalistic integrity, and only serves to make video games an outcast of art again; this doesn’t fit the narrative we’ve been fed for 25 years, so they try everything they can to kneecap it and do what they think is the right thing.
And if these people get their way, we’ll be back to where we were ten years ago, before the democratization of the fan community culture concept, before games were just a thing everyone played and enjoyed, and nobody takes somebody who enjoys video games more than any other art form seriously. Moreover the disgusting tumorous mess that is games journalism will simply be allowed to fester in its horridness, serving as yet another hurdle to the concept of video games as art.
But most of all, this silences the feminist populace in favor of pushing this pre-fabricated and carefully engineered caricature of a feminist, who will speak about the oppression of nonexistent women who are conglomerates of computer code while at the same time apologizing for misogynists who know all the phrases and buzzwords they need to use to get that pussy, or “white knights”, as you may call them.
To change the subject of this argument is to push culture backwards in so many ways. Please don’t.
pineapplesmells said: it didn't really come out of nowhere, they were responsing to the photoset you reblogged.i don't know the whole context for those tweets, maybe wil had mentioned the scandal previously, maybe those people were trying to redirect onto a (related) hot topic. (what with people throwing around accusations of misogyny when anyone dares criticise quinn's behavior)
What I mean by out of nowhere is that those tweets weren’t the focus of the photoset. The photoset was talking about problems with misogyny in gaming; the tweets mentioning corruption in journalism were only shown as a deterrent from the topic he was trying to talk about.
I just really can’t comment on anything else at this time because I don’t know anything about it. I don’t know who Zoe Quinn is, I barely know who Wil Wheaton is, I don’t know what TFYC is, I don’t know any of the issues the anon was talking about. It’s not that I don’t care or I think the anon is wrong, it’s that the first I heard of this corruption issue was last night shortly before I went to bed and saw it mentioned in one of the tweets in the set, and then having the anon message when I got up. I don’t believe in forming stances before investigating, and I haven’t investigated yet.
On behalf of everyone arguing about this, thank you for withholding judgement. Just make sure to look beyond the news sources for this one. It’s a bit of a doozy.
theislandsunwriter said: Yeah, there's plenty evidence. There is a 4chan specific link to donate money to TFYC, that's got over $10000, plus most people on TFYC's indiegogo comment section say they're from /v/ and you can check out the Know Your Meme articles of Quinspiracy, The Fine Young Capitalists, and Vivian James for more info and evidence.
Just read the Knowyourmeme page. I love the part where that feminist MissAngerist is pissed off because she expects TFYC to simply turn away money because 4chan has a lot of trolls and misogynists. Like wow, let your cause suffer because you’re too morally superior to accept donations from people affiliated with a site you dislike! Otherwise you’re a piece of shit for helping women in the gaming industry.
That’s amazing, though. I like that 4chan did that even if their stated interests were immature as fuck. Although I’m sure if they proposed they do it just because they’re interested in women having equal opportunity and representation in the industry other trolls would be like “fuck off I don’t care.” Like the ice bucket challenge, people have to be sold altruism. Oh well.
Fun fact? MissAngerist has switched sides now.
is the whole zoe quinn thing simply because she slept around to get good reviews or is there more to it?
Originally, yes. However, the major media black-out and censorship from the surrounding media raised way more red flags, and now that the media is demonising all gamers, people are upset about that.
Zoe Quinn is the catalyst, she long ago stopped being important for the rest of this.
If you kill a person, you’re a murderer. If you steal, no one would hesitate to call you a thief. But in America, when you force yourself on someone sexually, some people will jump through flaming hoops not to call you a rapist.
As reported by Al Jazeera America, colleges across the country are replacing the word “rape” in their sexual assault policies with “non-consensual sex” because schools don’t want label students “rapists”.
This whole article is worth reading.
And now, there’s shitload of articles on ”how gamers should be stopped” and how ”gamers as a identifying term is going to die” and ”how they (gaming journalists) are saving games and gaming from misogyny”, and if you ask me, these bunch of articles is pretty much insulting me, on INTELLECTUAL LEVEL.
I really don’t understand this. I mean, are you guys for real? Are you ”journalist” pieces of human waste aware that ”gamer” as a descriptive term is actually gender neutral? That ”gamer” nowadays includes men and women equally? That you are making super gross generalization of shiiiiitload of people that consume games and enjoy them? Are you fucking aware of that?
I’ve seen that one guy boasting on twitter how he’s putting end to misogyny and that ”gamers” should accept that women are people too or some shit? Like, good lord, you have these journalists on Kotaku, Polygon, etc. pretending to be like ”yeah look at us we are so socially advanced compared to these neckbeards fedora shits, we got our cock sucked by feminists so we are allowed to say what’s what and who’s who”, and then there’s part of Tumblr that’s also sucking on his e-peen because ”yeee damn right you tell those shitlords” while good majority of reblogs don’t even understand whats going on and have no connection to gaming scene whatsoever, but they reblog it. They reblog it because it mentioned them buzzwords.
What I find extremely funny is this people are latching on so called ”harassement” and ”sexism” between gamers and some shit, and tbh I do endorse calling out idiots and trolls. I do endorse alienating people who are toxic to the community and actually don’t belong there because they are hateful, sexist, etc…
But to go around and lump all of the gamers (I repeat, gamer today isn’t gender exclusive and it includes men, women, and everybody else who doesn’t fall into normative genders) to be this ‘vicious group of monsters who seek out to destroy women or some shit is wrong. It’s actually quite silly. Because these gamers you actually lumped together, do call out trolls and idiots in their rows. We do call them out. But no, we are all equally bad because we dared to question stuff around. But god forbid these journalists and dev to call out rotten links in their rows… oh wait, I forgot they also harass people who think differently and threat their co-workers with lay-offs if they dare pointing it out.
I wonder who’s closer to terrorism here? Bunch of people who criticize and widely discuss shit going on or people that are criticized who threat people around themselves for daring to point out bullshit in their rows? I mean, so much people speaking up against it have to use aliases because they fear for their personal life. That says something about it.
Last time I posted, I said that people should not bully and harrass. I said that we should wait for information on the subject before demanding anyone’s head on a stake.
Today? I don’t even care anymore. Lines are being crossed and it’s time people took a stand.
TFYC.. The Fine Young Capitalists. The event developed for WOMEN by WOMEN (with one guy) to get WOMEN into the game development scene.
The idea is nice. They get a bunch of submissions of ideas from women who don’t have the means to make a game. They judged the games on all merits and chose 5 that would eventually be voted on and made by a female production company. Some money would go back to the person that submitted the idea, the production company would be paid for their time, and the profit would go to charity.
First, they were sank by Zoe’s efforts. They essentially “went down” with no coverage and no remorse. Zoe would have you believe that she only posted “4 tweets” on the subject. Really? FUCKING REALLY? Did you forget that the internet has photographic memory that can’t be tampered with? Maybe they should donate to Zoe’s game jam “Rebel Jam.” I won’t link it because I can’t in good faith. The donations made go directly to her paypal account. There is no information about this “jam” other than “it’s going to happen.” No dates, no organizers, no information. NOTHING. The same paypal account it’s linked to is the one she uses for her personal donations. How does one distinguish which donations being made are for the game jam and which are “tips” linked from her site?
It’s not a new thing for 4chan to be called misogynists and women-haters. They’ve been dragged through the mud every chance someone gets. I’m surprised they haven’t blamed them for the hole in the ozone layer. With the recent hate and smear-campaign against gamers as “misgonyst woman-haters” they had a call to arms to prove them wrong and donated over $5000 in one day. At this point, the latest I’ve heard, it’s over $13,000 in donations that these “angry misogynist woman-haters” have donated to a game jam devoted to women.
They pooled more than enough money to create what is the daughter/waifu of 4chan /v/. Vivian James. They also chose the charity that this money would be going to. It will be donated to Colon Cancer as a show of solidarity for TotalBiscuit, who suffers from colon cancer and was the first public figure to go against the grain and say “We should wait for more information.” He was immediately met with a barrage of hatred and beratement by game-devs and the “Pro-Zoe” camp.
(Copyright 4chan /v/ 2014)
Then Sarkeesian denounced the project because they got support from 4chan.. How disgusting, petty, and vile. You’re a terrible person and I don’t care who knows I feel this way. You don’t like that a bunch of ANONYMOUS people are donating to a cause, so you denounce the project? You do realize that after Zoe had other sites remove and censor any discussion of the matter, many people who don’t frequent 4chan flocked there to talk about it because they couldn’t anywhere else without being censored/banned, right?
Their Indiegogo page was hacked and taken down twice after this, with strong implications that it was done by people in the Pro-Zoe camp. This is speculation, but it should go noted.
Someone wants to post to get the message out about TFYC and what happens? They’re immediately met with controversy and remove it because “it was denounced by Anita and Zoe”
In case you’re wondering, she took it down. I don’t blame her because I doubt she wants the controversy, but it’s out there. This is a deliberate attempt to cover up and destroy this seemingly great cause, yet again.
This has me outraged. Real Feminists should be up in arms over this… but no.. not going to happen.. because the faux-feminists of today like Sarkeesian and Quinn rule their news feeds. TFYC? That won’t be discussed in their news.
Rampant sexism in the gaming industry? Bullshit. Don’t take it from me though.
Amy Henning, who has had a hand in the creation of the Legacy of Kain series, Jak & Daxter, and the Uncharted series. She’s now with Visceral working on Star Wars. She has been cited as one of the most influential women in the video game industry.
Now don’t misinterperet what I’m saying. I’m not saying that there aren’t sexists and misogynists in the field, They are everywhere. I’m just saying that it’s pretty hard to believe it’s as rampant in the industry as some would have you believe.
Trivializing RAPE by writing articles about “virtual rape” and saying that some bullies on the internet are “essentially raping” Quinn. That’s an insult to real rape victims and you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Have some common decency and self-respect. I heard some stuff that reminds me of this “virtual rape” you speak of. It was the terms “consensual rape” and “legitimate rape.” Remember those? Yea.. talk about the hypocrisy of it all.
As far as the gamers themselves? They come from all races, creeds, sizes, colors, genders, and circumstances. There are just as many people being called “faggots” and “niggers” as there are being called names for being a girl, if not more.. No.. definitely more.
That’s what happens when the internet is brought into your house, whether you’re gaming, chatting on irc, or commenting/posting on youtube. You want to go off on the entire internet? Go for it, but don’t nail gamers to the wall because you can’t handle some 12 year old calling you names on Call of Duty or some shit.
Don’t even talk to me about the plight of the woman in modern day society. The REAL feminists are probably rolling over in their graves knowing they have the likes of Anita and Zoe representing them.
Try being an arab post 9/11 living in America and come back to me when you’re done being turned away from positions you’re well over-qualiified for because your name isn’t “traditional” enough.
Do I want someone to come defend me? No. That’s life. That’s the society we live in. If you want to make a change, go picket the politicians. Go stand up for your beliefs at their doorstep. Don’t bring it to my doorstep. Don’t bring it to my hobby.
I’m as progressive as they come. I’m all for standing up for your beliefs and going against the grain when you see injustice.. But there is a TIME AND PLACE for that. Video Games are not it. Most people just want to play the games. Direct your discontent with society in the right direction.
I am not a Misogynist. I am not a “Tea Party Member.” I am not a Terrorist.
These are the things I (we) have been called in the last week for simply holding an opinion that is different from someone elses. Not by just some “other twitter people,” but by journalists, game developers, and people in positions of power. Fuck you Devin Faraci. Fuck you for calling us “terrorists” “worse than ISIS.” You’re a piece of shit. You’re no “son of Brooklyn” you asshole.
As if having an arabic name and being half-arab wasn’t enough of a reason for people to call me a terrorist ALL THE TIME… Now I can add being a gamer to the list. Thanks you self-righteous, lemming-like prick, blindly following your friend Quinn off a cliff with the rest of them.
Finally… Game developers and legitimate game journalsts who want this industry to be taken seriously.. THIS IS YOUR TIME TO RISE. It’s your time to come out and defend your fans. You can be a voice of reason in this madness. You can stand up for us and the fans will only love you more for it.
YOU OWE IT TO US.
We bought your games. We read your articles. We bought tickets to your sold-out conventions. We, the fans, got you to where you are today. You can be against bullying and harrassment while still saying, “THERE IS A PROBLEM.”
We are not all bad. We are not all assholes. Some of us just want to play games. We don’t deserve to be painted with this broad brush of hatred against our community.
Now… I know that only a handful of people will ever read this.. But it must be said.. and when I’m old and grey and none of this matters anymore, at least I can say I tried. At least I know that I had a small voice somewhere that maybe only a few people heard, but it was heard.
Funny, I can’t actually find any primary sources about Quinn/tFYC thing. The thing I said holds even better, since I can see they were supported by TotalBiscuit and 4chan and reddit, which doesn’t bide well, and their definition of feminism is appears to be created by binding souls harvested from fifty libfems to a body created from shredded old issues of Cosmo, but said policy about participation of trans women? Can’t find it anywhere. (tbh why the fuck wouldnt they make it public esp if it was so controversial)
You can find their trans policy on their tumblr, buried in their answers.
Here it is: http://www.thefineyoungcapitalists.com/TransgenderPolicy
"there’s no proof zoe actually did any of this, it might all just be libel from a jilted ex-boyfriend"
except zoe quinn herself has openly stated she won’t comment on the matter, rather than a simple “yes, I have cheated on my boyfriend” or “no, he is making all of this up”.
let’s give her the benefit of a doubt and assume that Eron Gjonl may or may not have made all of this up. let’s assume he fabricated the embedded facebook conversations to make himself appear as the morally superior significant other. here’s an excerpt of “the zoe post”, a lengthy explanation of Quinn’s actions from her ex-boyfriend:
now, here’s an official statement from Stephen Totilo from Kotaku:
oh, okay. so the dates match up. no big deal. maybe it’s all just a big coincedence, you know? zoe quinn doesn’t seem like a liar or anything
oh, and what’s this now?
okay, well… that looks kind of bad.
rebel game jam does look largely unfinished, especially for a website that went active about five months ago:
according to the fine young capitalists, the group that was supposedly a “production for women” who was taken down by Zoe Quinn (as seen abve), “We took five women that had never made a game before and said they could make any game they wanted. We would help them create a pitch and in some cases a demo so they could sell their idea."
well that certainly sounds like a way to garner support, right? a way to stop oppression? a way for women to express themselves in the industry?
or maybe that’s not what this is about at all.
I want you to click on the first article I linked from Zoe Quinn’s tumblr and read the title to yourself. “I will not negotiate with terrorists”. that’s what it says, right?
alright, let’s read on
I don’t want to get off topic here, but first and foremost, talk about distasteful use of analogy. “public execution”. In the wake of recent events, this is not acceptable language at all. Even more disturbing, the fact that Zoe Quinn supporters have been drawing this analogy between us. Secondly, wow, talk about bias: “Depression Quest is great, and its designer is one of the most interesting figures in the industry.” Of course she is, considering she’s only designed that game. It’s not like there’s any better candidates for “most interesting woman" in the gaming industry, anyways. It is a misogynstic, patriarchal powerhouse after all.
There’s that word again, “jilted”. What else? Demonstrably untrue? None of anybody’s business? People are going to endlessly slander you for being misogynists because you don’t agree with a woman, people are going to claim that you’re only doing this because you hate women. They don’t understand this is a deep-rooted problem in this industry and many others. Just because this happens daily, nepotism and all, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be allowed to do anything about it. This isn’t the first time we’ve heard about corruption and it certainly won’t be the last, but we have proof this time.
Just because it “happens all the time”, doesn’t mean we can’t try to stop it. This has been the thought process of Social Justice Warriors everywhere. Who are you to tell us we can’t change something by endlessly arguing and promoting awareness on the internet? Not you.
"You wouldn’t be harassing her if she was a he". Except this isn’t an issue about gender, and it never was. If she was a he, I bet you wouldn’t be supporting him, now would you? If a man cheated on his girlfriend with five other girls, would you let him live that down?
This is happening because we want change in the industry, we don’t want to bring down Zoe Quinn in the same way feminists and social justice warriors don’t want to glorify her. You’re not defending her cheating on her boyfriend with five other people, you’re defending her role as a woman in gaming. We’re not attacking her because she’s a woman, we’re attacking her as a means to bring attention to the corruption and broken state of the gaming industry.
Isn’t that all we want?
To change the industry?